if they should bar wars, please let these star wars staaaaay

[orangerful]

The Clone Wars Sneak Peek is up on Starwars.com and while it looks very very cool I just...whats the point? I mean, we know how it ends for Dooku and Grievous -- and we know that end has already been filmed so we won't see it in the cartoon.

I think they should take the plots from the Star Wars novels that take place during the Clone Wars and turn those into the show. That might be fun.

I mean, I'm still going to tune in because of the pretty, but I don't know if it will keep me watching after an episode or two.

EDIT: Oh how I wish this was real - this might be fun to watch and actually explore territory that hasn't been beaten to death (and have a bit more character depth too...)

Comments

[vertigozooropa.livejournal.com]

Lucas botched it big time when he made three lame prequels, and refused to acknowledge the wealth of plot already extant in his own universe. I think the fans are yearning, begging to see the Thrawn saga, to see Mara Jade on the screen for the first time (not the first time, but I didn't play the Mysteries of the Sith expansion, so I missed out on that.).

There's so much coolness yet to be tapped. The Dark Forces series was great. I'll take Jedi Knight over the prequel trilogy any day of the week.

I think it's the aesthetic that makes the difference. The prequels were so bright and over the top, and they don't feel like Star Wars. Plus, Jerec's mob were a whole lot tougher than Windu's. If Jerec, Sariss, Yun, Gorc, Pic, Boc, and Maw got into a fight with the Jedi council, we know who would win. HINT: it's not the guys who died at the hands of a bunch of Stormtroopers.

We were always curious about what went on before, but what we truly wanted was to know what happens next, and we wanted to see it visually. Timothy Zahn's original vision was far superior to Lucas's, and one of my biggest peeves about Attack of the Clones was that it completely and utterly invalidated the Thrawn trilogy as a possible canon sequel to Return of the Jedi. And to make matters worse, Zahn's ideas for the Clone Wars were much, much better than Lucas's. Much better.

Think about it: What would you rather see: a war between the entire Jedi council and their clones (or even an entire army of cloned Jedi Masters) or "all of the Stormtroopers are clones of Boba Fett...sorry, clones of Jango Fett, and thus brothers to Boba Fett...and the Clone Wars are just battles between an army you don't care about and a bunch of pansies who you know are going to lose."?

The Jedis were supposed to be hardcore. We needed an enemy that could take them out. I mean, watch them fight. Look at Yoda. Heck, look at Luke after a small amount of training. The Council was supposed to consist of Yoda's peers, any of whom was a far greater Jedi than Ben Kenobi would ever be. Do you think Ben Kenobi could have died, shot in the back by a stormtrooper? No, it took Darth Vader to take down a badass like Ben Kenobi. What should it take to drop Mace Windu et al.? A fricking Star Destroyer.

Hand-to-hand combat. Mace vs. a Star Destroyer. And even then, it would be close.

The fights in the prequels were all a bit lopsided. Darth Maul was like a walking Cuisinart, and he even took out the Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn. So how's he supposed to die of a lucky shot from a Padawan?

What I want: I want to see Darth Maul kill a load of Jedis (because I think he could have) and a bunch of cloned Jedis-cum-Sith in a knock-down-drag-out, balls-out scrap that crosses the Galaxy, and ends with Yoda running to Dagobah to hide, and only Vader, Palpatine, and Kenobi left. I think the last shot of Revenge of the Sith should have been Kenobi setting off on a final quest to hunt down and finish off the remaining clone Sith.

But really, I'd be happy now if they'd just make some real post-Jedi sequels, and try to leave the prequels behind. I'm not sick of Star Wars, and I'm not done with it. I'm just waiting for something...something even half good, you know?

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

preaching to the choir, dear. *pats vertigozooropa on the head*

And I'll just pretend the prequels are not canon and take the Thrawn Trilogy as canon any day! That trilogy re-awakened by love for star wars and is still one of the strongest Star Wars novel sets out there, IMO.

Yeah, watching this clip, and only hearing rumors of what the live action show will be, I'm afraid they will be big let downs for adult fans. In this day and age, we want character and plot we can track (ala Lost (season 1) and Heroes) and just from that clip I can tell that it's definately going to be a children's show...with lots of hacking and slashing but no real character development (though it would be NICE to see Anakin truly turn ot the dark side and not just stub his toe in Palpatine's office and suddenly say "oh okay, I guess I'm evil now".

[vertigozooropa.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'm just remembering it for myself. Shedding the years of prequeltude in favor of the Star Wars I remember. You're right about canon. Lucas lost control of his monster long before Star Wars Special Edition. We just let him back in because we thought he'd do well.

But Star Wars is a nation now, and founding fathers don't get to be president for life. Lucas thinks he's the God-Emperor of A Galaxy Far Away, but he's not. He's an insurgent, and we've denied his bloody coup. Now, to return to normalcy.

I mean, Lucas let go of Star Wars, and Zahn re-invigorated it. I don't think Lucas would have made TPM if not for Heir To The Empire.

It's kind of laughable, now that there's an entire mega-series of books following on from the sequels of the sequels. The fans had moved on, and we thought movies would be great. We've mourned, and now more and more of us are realizing just what we've been talking about: it just doesn't matter.

The only difference between this and any other universe is that Lucas is still alive and claiming ownership of what is, arguably, one of the great myths of our culture. Many writers have taken over for him, and done a much better job. Batman and James Bond and Archie and any character you care to name, have been written and redefined over the years. Why not Star Wars?

It's the hope that kept us back. I watched TPM, and the first thing I thought was, "We were expecting something like the novels. That was a retread of A New Hope." Except I never call it "A New Hope." That's not as good a title as "Star Wars."

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

It's true - heck, read any of the novelizations of the prequels and the books are so much more FUN! Because those writers are in love with the Star Wars universe as it is and just want to play with it.

Somewhere along the line, Lucas seems to have become spiteful in his mission to alter the films and their message. I don't think he knows he's doing these things out of spite, because I'm sure this whole "internet" thing has blown him mind, but sometimes watching the prequels (like I am now...because they are on and they make great background noise, plus i can run over for the fight scenes and leave during the political debate or "romantic" moments) it seems like he found things that fans had latched on to from the expanded universe and maybe thought he was making them cooler (boba fett, clone wars etc) and in fact, ruined them.

So, yes, the Original Trilogy is gold and my true love. The prequels are there but I treat them the say way I treat the spin off books - interesting concepts but not canon.

[vertigozooropa.livejournal.com]

I think the prequels represent missed opportunity for me. There's so much going for them, and so much against them, and so much they failed to do. Darth Maul is totally badass, but underused. The whole thing is gorgeous, except for the fully-CGI characters, who don't quite look right.

I mean, the performances on some characters (Viceroy, Jar Jar, Dexter Jettster, Grievous) really irk me, and I go into hate-rage whenever anyone says, "Okee-day," or, "Roger Roger," but those things can be separated from the truly awesome saber-battles and vistas and such. There's no doubt they're some of the best-looking films in some parts.

[imadra-blue.livejournal.com]

I have to disagree with you wholeheartedly here. I think there were a lot of missed opportunities to explore Anakin's deepening psychosis and the troubles within the Clone Wars. And I don't want to see the EU made into second tier canon. Mostly because the EU is generally pretty shoddily written and does not follow the movies' flavor and attidues closely enough to work. Be it prequel or OT, I think GL to needs to patch in the wholes he left in his own canon. I'm glad he's starting with the Clone Wars, honestly. When that's done, I hope he turns to the intertrilogy, and so on. If he could show adventures between the ot episodes or after, I might eventually die of ecstasy. But let him build up to it, I think.

But then, I avoid the EU like the plague, so the territory of the Clone Wars has not been beaten to death for me. What I despise most about the EU is how we're inundated with OCs. I don't give a fuck about Quinlan Vos or Callista or whatever. I want to see what happened to my Skywalkers and Kenobis. *shrugs*

I think the prequels have problems, but I still like them. I still think they fit nicely into the whole saga, which I will always love above all others. And now that I see the blocky art moves very nicely, I'm excited to see the show.

Then again, the OT borders on sacred ground for me, and people messing with it invariably annoy me if it isn't done just right, so I'm much more open to new prequel and intertrilogy.

But I'm so glad he's not drawing much from the EU for his series. The EU is way to hit or miss, and for me, it's almost always a miss.

[imadra-blue.livejournal.com]

I've already discussed below why I disagree wholeheartedly with both of you, but I will say this: The EU did not create fans. People read the EU because they like the movies. People do not watch the movies because they like the EU. While I admit there might be a few fans who got into SW through the EU, they are small. I'm a diehard SW fan (and trust me, I'll admit the films are flawed and silly in places, but I still love them), and I despise the EU. What I can forgive in a SW movie, I cannot forgive in the novels. I like Zahn okay, but I don't think there's a need for Lucas to showcase it. It is his universe, and I much prefer single author universes to sprawling, confused canons like Batman (which is as hit or miss as the EU). I don't even think Zahn topped Lucas, but it's also categorically impossible to top your source canon. He wrote a derivative novel. And most every other EU author has written what I consider to be fanfiction, whith poor characterization, OC Mary Sues and Gary Stus, cheapening of canon plotlines, and even direct contradictions with the source material.

With all due respect, but when you play in someone else's sandbox, you need to respect your source material. If you can't, you wind up writing bad fanfiction, no different from the dreck on FF.Net.

I, personally, am looking forward to this new series and am applauding Lucas's decision to ignore the EU. And a lot of other people are with me. I respect that you like the EU, but just recognize that most fans don't care about the incoherent and badly written novels in the EU. we're here for the canon characters and their storylines.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't deny there is a TON of material to be covered about the Anakin and Obi-Wan Clone Wars days and both of their relationships and their evolutions. And I'd like to see more of what Padme was up to as well. But this all depends on the writers and directors and the goal for the series. I guess what I really want to see right now is the mission statement for the series. Is it "Saturday Morning Fix for kiddies", or "fanboy service" or something my adult mind can wrap around. I'd love to see something that worked on many levels. I am just skeptical of what the goal of this television show really is.

I'm not a big EU fan either. I've only read the first Zahn trilogy and a handful of others back when it all was starting up again in the 90s. Much of it is poorly written which is why I stopped. I've picked up a few comic books now and then, but only stuff that stays the hell away from the OT, because, as you said, it's sacred. (Except for Tag & Bink, because they crack me up and the occasional 'Star Wars Tales' since they don't pretend to be canon!)

I only suggested the writers would draw on the EU for ideas because some of the stronger books, I've heard, have very interesting and involving tales to tell and many of the professional authors that have dabbled in the 'verse do respect the storytelling ethic. Or even like the X3 people ripped off Joss' comic book to create a foundation for their (crappy) movie. I just hope the plots are not generated by some Mad Libs style plot-creating program that inserts "lightsaber duel" and "random jedi" throughout. I want something new and meaty.

But really, all we have right now is a very pretty bunch of pictures. No hint of what we will actually see. So it's hard to pass judgment. I'm a little afraid to get too excited about it. It's clear the battle sequences will be awesome, but I'm still cautious when it comes to what the stories will be - and for me, that will make or break the deal.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Oh I don't think the EU created fans, but it brought them back after the Star Wars drought we had in the late 80s-90s. It re-introduced the stories to be as a teen and made me remember why I loved the movies so much.

I quickly abandoned the EU because it didn't tap into what I loved about the films - like those silly "If you liked this book, you'll like this" sort of thing which never really understand why I liked a story (Douglas Adams books always bounce back sci-fi stories and that's not why I read his books, I read them for that dry wit with a dash of snark mixed with I'm-not-taking-this-seriously-at-all) The EU felt like Sci-Fi, and I'm really not a big Sci-Fi fan, it's the myths and the human stories that I was into.

And the novelizations of the films are very interesting reads since they incorporate scenes and plots that were cut for the final release (though looking at the deleted scenes in AotC or RotS, many were filmed, just edited) and a lot of them really help the Anakin/Padme relationship and Padme's part creating what would become the Rebel Alliance.

My biggest beef with the prequels is the whole Clone Wars set up though. Just didn't like it and the way it didn't quite gel with the sacred trilogy. And I think the story I had made up in my head was far more satisfying than what I saw on screen.

But if fandom has taught me anything - it's only the great works that inspire so many different levels to be read and enjoyed on. So this conversation just confirms the awesomeness that is the Star Wars 'verse for me. :)

[imadra-blue.livejournal.com]

I totally admit that I fear this show might be a huge series of explosions, in which case, it loses automatically. I've got the explosions. Now, I want to see Anakin falling apart and Obi-Wan trying desperately to keep them both sane. I want to see what was missed. And I don't mean 'droids being lightsabered, either. XD

I really like Zahn, but even he was not flawless. I think he ignored some of the implicit storyline requirements at the end of RotJ, as well as made up his own Leia characterization. (Which wasn't bad, but wasn't Leia, either.) After him, it started to sink and once The Courtship of Princess Leia came out, I gave up.

Hmm, I can see the argument for dabbling in certain parts of the EU. For the record, there are some EU books I like (such as Rogue Planet), but the rest of it is like fanfiction. Great ideas, awful execution. XD

I really hope that whoever wrote this has a strong grasp of the canon and brings a few ne original ideas to the plate. If they kinda go the direction of the CW cartoon, then we could be going in the right direction, imho. I do reserve judgment, as AotC looked really awesome in previews until you got to the theater, but I can't help myself. New SW always makes me excited. XD

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I really hope that whoever wrote this has a strong grasp of the canon and brings a few ne original ideas to the plate.

AMEN TO THAT! I hope they understand the 'verse but are not afraid to challenge us! And I hope they focus on Anakin and Obi-Wan and Padme in a way we haven't seen before.

I'll probably get more fangirly as the premiere date approaches. I try to keep my cool this far out, then someone will post screencaps and I'll fall over the edge because then I can dissect the clips second by second haha.

[imadra-blue.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree the EU keeps certain fans interested, but another reason aisde from quality issues that I think account for its lesser popularity is due to the fact that it's an entirely different form of media. And the EU, much like fanfiction, keeps people cohesively bound with shiny new toys to play with. It's not wholly bad, and I was perhaps a bit harsh above, but I would be appalled if the new Clone Wars series was based off the EU, as over-complicated, derivative (and not just of SW, either), silly as it is.

I do like some of the novelizations. I have some complaints, but overall Stover's RotS was really good. As was the TPM novelization. Books like Rogue Planet, the Zahn trilogy, and so on prove that there can be good EU novels. But I think Lucas, for all his other faults, could give a better story than most EU novels.

Ah, I didn't much care for AotC, either. I also think the "bloodless" war was a cop-out. As were the clone troopers. I agree there was fail in the prequels, but if done properly, this new Clone Wars thing might be able to help with that. I really hope. Because what Iv'e read of the comics and books just don't quite do it for me. My own head provides a better story, too. XD

True, true. Even I can't deny that there are multiple SW interpretations, inspirations, and other fun to be had. I just look forward to once again enjoying SW onscreen, in its original media format. :D