deep thoughts for a Monday morning

[orangerful]

Very interesting read from the Harvard Business Review - What So Many People Don't Get about the U.S. Working Class?

Biggest issue is they forgot to say WHITE working class right upfront but otherwise, I found this fascinating and a way to try to understand what was going on in their minds. I don't agree with their decision to support Trump, but the first steps to fixing any problem is understanding both sides, right?

And, of course, these are not the only people that voted for Trump, but this is the group getting the bulk of the blame.

Decent comments too! I mean, some people are just angry, but others have good points about the article, other issues, and where they disagree but still relatively civil!

I've added a safety pin to my work lanyard as a silent protest and a nod to anyone who feels unsafe in these times.

Comments

[rhoda-rants.livejournal.com]

I've been reading stuff like that too, and I do understand their frustration. So many people are in similar situations, and I do get why they voted the way they did.

Problem is, Trump's running mate wants people like me brainwashed and tortured, and he's filling the cabinet with people who can actually make that a reality. That's the one thing I cannot get past.

Here's where I am: we need to help each other, because the government we're getting right now isn't going to help any of us. Even the ones who voted him in. I'm wearing my safety pin too. There are a couple of families who come to Storytime on the regular who wear head scarves. I haven't seen them in a while and I really hope they're okay.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Yeah...what is that line from Lord of the Rings? About Sauron gathering all the evil around him? I mean, it was one thing to pick Pence as a running make, which was disgusting, but now the announcement of his "strategist" and so on, it just getting worse.

And it still goes back to that packaged deal of racism/sexism etc. that I linked in my previous post - I know they are hurting and times are tough, but why would you support someone who has said so many hateful things unless you agree with them on some level?

(and bonus, my manager just sniped at our volunteers for making a comment that "only protestors will be at Trump's inauguration because Republicans have to work". She stopped right in her tracks, look at him and told him that was completely inappropriate. He tried to laugh it off and she just gave him a death glare.)

[rhoda-rants.livejournal.com]

Yeah, all the people he's surrounding himself with are horrible. He seems to have walked back some of his plans to obliterate Obamacare (now that he knows what's in it...Jesus...do your homework, guy), and told his supporters to knock it off with the racial attacks, but it's way, way too little too late.

Good for your manager. That volunteer needs to shut the hell up and think about what he did. You can fire volunteers, right?

[hanorganaas.livejournal.com]

I feel like the desperation of others for a "better America" got Trump voted here. And it went Awry. Trump seems like he did this as a Publicity Stump and now we're stuck but I don't think with Trump's age hes gonna do two terms so there's a caviat.

I Am also gonna buy safety pins this week and put one on. I feel like because I fall into so many Marginalized categories I need to show I support!

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I keep waiting for him to be like "JUST KIDDING!" because it just gets more disturbing each day as he picks out cabinet members that support this idea that a "great America" is one devoid of acknowledging our diverse population and everyone's civil rights.

[hanorganaas.livejournal.com]

It's up to him to be impeached. But god I have one last hope of the Electoral College going NOPE WE DONT WNAT HIM! So -fingers crossed-

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I want to believe that will happen but, as usual, these people aren't looking out for the country, just their own butts, and they plan on staying in politics and don't want to burn any bridges. I'm doubting anyone would be as brave as a superhero and stand up for what is right.

I just hope those that are protesting don't cause any damage or trouble. It just makes things worse for everyone. :\

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

I've tried understanding. Hell, I'm in the demographic that is supposed to have voted him in (white, working poor). But all I know is, understanding the people who voted for him aside, a great lot of the ones who did so have no reason to be grumbling, as they are not in the same situation as the people they just threw under the bus. I've tried to understand. But I also know that intolerance is the main reason for voting against yourself - and that is what they did. They must know that. I cannot condone the rise of hate and the idea that putting that man in office makes what he says (and has done) okay. Which is exactly what voting him in has done. Now you have people acting on what they only used to say behind closed doors. And I fear for my neighbors. I fear for myself and my little family as well - not because of violence...but because we're already bad off and now it will only get worse. And how soon before minorities and those being targeted by hate groups fight back (as they should!), but people like me and my family will either get mistaken for the enemy or caught in the crossfire.

Understanding is all well and good. As long as both sides are doing so. But we have one side that was indifferent to all but themselves and willing to pass the blame for what they felt was wrong on the groups they were told were the problem. There was no critical thinking. There was no asking questions. There was no studying both sides of the debate and trying to understand on THEIR end. There is blind hate, blind indifference and a willingness to believe the people that have been steadily making everything a mess are suddenly going to fix it.

And I'm still obviously pissy about it all...apologies, lovie.

I'm wearing my safety pin. And I hope that I can help. I just don't want to have to tangle with those who are the opposite in thinking and I'm too pissed to be rational about it right now. I've tried rational. It didn't get me very far - and being tolerant and understanding of bigotry has only gotten a man in office who will devastate our economy, drive the working class harder than they have been for even less, plummet our climate over the cliff's edge and undo every public service and social service that our society depends on (and has been depending on) since FDR. Arrghhh...

*HUGS*

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

No apologies needed! I think everyone is really frustrated, which is why the media is scrambling with articles like this to figure out who to "blame", which really isn't very helpful because it just creates yet another target and a way for people to feel separate, like there is no hope of every making it work because "they" are so different from "us" on these fundamental levels.

And there are so many people who fall into this description that were not Trump supporters, and didn't vote that way because they disagreed with his politics and his rhetoric.

And there are plenty of very well off, fully employed people who voted him in as well because they were going to vote their party line no matter what.

And you're right, understanding is all well and good but that's not going to happen. It is going to be the same as it ever was, the losing party will hold a grudge and fight, the winning party will do what it can to push through rules and regulations that suit its needs. And in 4-8 years we will switch it up again and waste time trying to repair rather than move on.

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

I've read a couple of things like that as well and their frustration is understandable, but I cannot get past that the cabinet is filling with people who stand for everything I despise.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I am really angry because I feel like that is a missed opportunity. Instead of extending an olive branch, instead of saying "hey, I won, but let's work together" and picking people who might be in the middle, he is picking alt-right "leaders". Disgusting.

[rahirah]

I really think this author is underestimating ingrained racism and sexism in his attempt to make it All About Class. As he himself points out, it is the WHITE Working Class he's talking about. And their contempt for women and non-whites drips from every word he writes. Their so-called dignity depends on the oppression of other groups.

I mean, yes, we have to understand why people feel as they do in order to reach them, but understanding does not mean we have to accept that their feelings are A-OK and we should just roll over and accommodate them in everything. Because what they want is NOT simply good jobs -- it's a return to a social order where they were on top of the heap, and everyone else had to defer to them. The world is not going to return to the 1950s. Good-paying factory jobs are not going to magically return -- automation is doing them in as fast or faster than globalization. And I am damned if LBGT+ folks are going back in the closet, and non-whites are going back to the back of the bus, so that middle class white people can feel comfortable in their social superiority to everyone else.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

AGREED! 100%. The author gets called out in the comments section a lot about glossing over the racism/sexism/xenophobia/homophobia of Trump supporters. And I also agree that this doesn't justify their behaviors but it helps me get a better grasp on things? I dunno, I'm always so flummoxed by the other side of arguments because I was raised pretty liberal and solid middle class. I have no memory of struggling and no memory of my family hating on other people, blaming anyone for our problems. It blows my mind how many people in this world are so hell bent on telling others how to live their lives.

So much hate. I mean, I've been upset the past few days, angry at how things are going, how do these people maintain this level of anger ALL THE TIME? It would be exhausting! How do they get anything done? How do they not all have heart attacks and die?

[rahirah]

I grew up lower middle class -- my dad was a bus driver, my mother a stay-at-home mom until my dad got sick, at which point she went back to bookkeeping. We were never in danger of being out on the street, but we ate a lot of hot dogs, and most of our clothes and furniture and cars and pretty much everything else were second-hand. Mom once told me there were times she had to pay a ten dollar doctor's bill in installments. (Granted ten dollars was worth a lot more in the 1960s than now.) My parents were/are both racist as fuck -- but I've only realized just how racist as my mother's gotten older, and her filters have come off. They are a generation or two older than the people this article talks about. It's depressing as hell that in those two generations, there's been so little change. And I can't claim to be free of the influence myself, since after all, these people raised me.

Sigh. None of this is going to be easy, but I don't think we can make it any easier by trying to claim the ugliest parts don't exist. :(

[jerusha]

I completely agree, and thank you for putting this into words. These are people like my in-laws that voted Trump in, and I know them. I grew up with a lot of them, and so did Tyson. Sure, there are things that we should address like rampant drug use, lack of jobs, etc., but they voted for Trump because he blamed specific groups for their problems. They absolutely want to go back to a world where their "way of life" (read: privilege) isn't at risk, where they don't have to see people of color, or deal with LGBT+ folks, or whatever. You only have to listen to my MIL's rants about how "the Mexicans are ruining everything" ONCE to get that.

I think a lot of white folks (those of a liberal bent, anyway) want to blame everything but race for Trump's victory. If it was a matter of strategy or Hillary's emails or whatever, that can be fixed. If it's racism, how do you change people's hearts? And the answer to that question is often a) education, and/or b) you wait for them to die off.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Whoa, yes, that is it! I think we want to believe what is best and it is easier to blame class (because money talks) than race/sex issues (because IT IS 2016 HOW?!?!?) but that is the reality. And that is what was so upsetting because we had somehow convinced ourselves, even after everything we have seen this past year with the police officers and Black Lives Matter and beyond, that that was a fringe element.

And it is not.

And I am dreading our Christmas in Wisconsin now. I honestly don't know if I will be able to be civil anymore with my in-laws. You will probably see MANY posts on LJ from me as I bite my tongue to keep from ruining the holiday with a full on meltdown.

[rhoda-rants.livejournal.com]

I've been reading this to keep in my back pocket for Thanksgiving this year. And driving myself instead of piling in with my mom and stepdad so I can escape if I need to.

ETA: Which is to say: DO IT. Have the meltdown. Fuck being civil. I don't know if I can do it either, but I have to try. They'll hate me for it, but I have to try.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Brilliant. BRILLIANT! Why try to rationalize with people who can't be rationalized with? I mean, there's not point in me preparing a thesis statement and a list of facts because they watch FOX News and (one of my favorite Stephen Colbert quotes) doesn't information itself have a liberal bias? :P

Wow. Okay. No. Okay. WOW! **runs away** At least I have the upstairs to escape too, sadly Wisconsin will be a bit far for me to actually run all the way home from. But yeah, that is actually REALLY GOOD input. Probably good for dealing with customers too, even though we are not supposed to engage in political discussion, if someone says something outrageous, I'd just like to be able to say "Wow...okay" and then run to the back room LOL.

[rhoda-rants.livejournal.com]

The silent thousand-yard-stare works quite well too, I'm told. If you can't feasibly "escape," I dunno. The goal is to let people know that bigoted language cannot fly anymore. Ruin the illusion that you're cool with it and will laugh it off/let it go.

What I'm most worried about is outing myself. I've been told that half my family does know I'm bi, but I've got one uncle, and aunt, and and in-law who are horrible homophobic garbage people and LOUD about it. So far, no one else has spoken up on my behalf. Not a single time. I've locked myself in the bathroom to cry at the last few family gatherings.

Oh, and that one uncle? One time I tried to just leave the conversation and go in another room FOLLOWED me and tried to corner me into getting into it with him. So--fuck them. If they won't be nice to me, I don't care anymore. I can't afford to. The White House is being filled with people who are dedicated to stripping my rights away RIGHT NOW. This isn't the time to play nice.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Exactly! No more shrugging it off or maybe even walking away silently. I might have to start saying something like "WOW!" and then leaving the room because I'm not sure they are smart enough to figure out why I am leaving the room. I need to stop letting the bullies win, because that is really what it is, letting the bullies win.

And are they really family if they can't love and accept you for who you are?

[geekslave.livejournal.com]

In a way, I can understand where these people are coming. I understand being desperate for a change and wanting to get away from the same old, same old politicians. But the thing I can't wrap my head around (aside from basically turning a blind eye to racism) is why do these people so desperate for change think that Trump is going to fix everything? He talked all of this crap about "draining the swamp" and his first steps in office were to fill it back up with the usual suspect politicians like Priebus and with racist, anti-Semites like Bannon. What in these months and months and months of election trash-talking has Trump actually specifically said that makes people actually believe he's going to bring back jobs and be different from other politicians? Because he says he's going to? Just because he's not a politician? It just does not make any sense to me.

Stacey

[snogged.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to understand both sides, but the choices Trump has making for his transition team do not give me hope.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Yeah, every time I feel like I'm calming down, an announcement is made that makes me want to scream.

[elizalavelle.livejournal.com]

I feel badly for them because the people who are under employed in fields that are rapidly disappearing I think will suffer a lot in the next four years. I don't know if they'll come to see that it was because there never was a plan to help them from Trump or if the blame will be shifted elsewhere but it's going to be rough for them.