too real! Library Comic #331

[orangerful]

THIS omg THIS

I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to say that "video games" line to a parent who insists on stopping their child from reading the book they picked out and WANT to read. *sigh*

Comments

[yourlibrarian]

Yes, even if it turns out to be something wrong for you that can be educational.

[the_rck]

Two or three years ago, I had a go around with my daughter's school because they were demanding that books read for school be in a certain lexile range. Hers was high enough that everything in the school library was disqualified, and she was panicking because she couldn't find anything. That led to me researching just what 'lexile' means and how it's determined* and then getting mad enough to spit nails.

Fortunately, the school backed down. The things that the public library's reference staff dug up that were in the right lexile were all things that were likely to make her hate reading. It reminded me of 7th grade reading class which required us to read books with a certain number of new-to-us words that we could look up, define, and then use in sentences. I ended up going to Shakespeare for that and then discovering that the dictionaries I had access to (around 1980) didn't contain half of the words I wanted to look up.

*Because a string of 40 words taken from some random place in a given book will always yield exactly the same results, right? There's nothing wrong with a system that consistently rates different, unabridged editions of the same text at wildly different numbers or that puts one of the Diary of a Wimpy Kid books at a higher difficulty than either the King James Bible or Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, right?

I know that it's better than zero guidelines for teachers for steering kids on school assignments when they don't have time to help each child individually, but when I looked at the system, it came across as being as arbitrary as limiting kids by the physical weight of the book or by the color of the binding. It's been years, and I'm still pissed off about it.

[orangerful]

YES YES and YES! I agree with all your statements. When I read an article on Lexiles and how it was never meant for parental consumption, I could have screamed. Like you said, it is a handy tool for reading teachers to share among their people to help a student, but telling an adult their child is "level 4" with no other guidance just makes everyone unhappy (except for authors with their books clearly labeled Level 4 - quality of story or writing be damned)

[beccadg]

I'm torn. On the one hand, once I learned to read, I fell in love with comic books which my teachers hated, but my parents supported because my dad was a long time comic book fan who knew they were perfectly good reading material. On the other hand, I didn't learn to read until I was 8, and I can sympathize with the kid worrying about being crushed by trying to read a book they can't get through on their own. I mean I don't know about the library you work in, but my local one has a kid section it calls "The Kids Korner," a young adult one it calls "The Teen Room," and then everything else. Before I learned to read I hated even going in the Kids Korner because I knew even with some of the picture books I wouldn't be able to follow the story. After I learned to read I went through it systematically, starting with the Kids Korner, progressing to the Teen Room, and ending with pretty much anything in the place that happened to speak to me, though I retain a soft spot for fantasy and science fiction.

[orangerful]

I would consider your story the normal progression but the problem we are facing right now are these new arbitrary "rating" systems that schools have adopted. The people who created the systems have even admitted that this was not the intended use, but teachers have told parents "Your child is a level X or Lexile 10" and now parents REFUSE to look at anything that is below that, even if it would encourage the child to practice their reading or learn how to read for fun.

Librarian and (good) teachers know books and know kids and are good at matching the two up. Nothing makes my blood boil like a child coming to the desk with a book they *want* to read only to be told by a parent that it is "too easy" or "not on their Lexile level" (and publishers have to *pay* to get their books rated with Lexile level so if the book is older, it probably was never rated).

So that is more the frustrating part for us. (though don't get me started on the parents who tell their kids to find a "real book" when I give them a stack of comics...especially when the parent isn't holding ANY books...") /librarianrant

[beccadg]

...the problem we are facing right now are these new arbitrary "rating" systems that schools have adopted.

Oooh. I'm not a librarian or a parent so I don't have much exposure to them. When you say "Lexile" I think I might have seen a bit of it either doing Literacy Volunteer work, or during my brief attempt at doing the Information and Library Services program at my school. I'm sorry that the systems aren't being used the way they were intended. That does suck loudly.

...don't get me started on the parents who tell their kids to find a "real book" when I give them a stack of comics...

Two of my least favorite phrases from grade school are "real book" and "serious literature." I not only had to deal with people not treating comic books as real books, but with people not treating "genre fiction" like science fiction or fantasy as "serious literature." HATE that.

[orangerful]

Oh yes, the plight of genre fiction. :( It is still a thing, though not *as* bad as it once was, at least that I have noticed. I hear more about the kids wanting to read Star Wars books and their parents assume these are all easy reader/PreK titles, but without blinking I walk them over to the section that has everything from 2nd grade chapter books to 6th grader level writing and then I fangirl at them while the parents just stare because HA THEY WANT TO READ A BOOK SO BE QUIET!

[beccadg]

...I walk them over to the section that has everything from 2nd grade chapter books to 6th grader level writing and then I fangirl at them while the parents just stare...

That is awesome! I would have adored a librarian like that when I was in elementary school. I still feel very lucky I had a science teacher in high school that shared his love of science fiction with me so much that he let me borrow one of his Anne McCaffrey Pern books over one summer. Senior year before graduation we were encouraged to write thank you notes to the people we felt had helped us reach graduation. I made him one and told him, "So long, and thanks for all the fish." It made him cry. I couldn't believe I'd made an adult cry.

[orangerful]

That is so sweet. I don't think teachers get that enough in their lives, those little thank you notes - at least ones from people that really mean it. I always tell parents that everyone enjoys reading once they find their kind of book, which is why I cringe when adults want to force "classics" down their kids throats (or eyeballs I guess would be a more appropriate body part)

[beccadg]

That is so sweet. I don't think teachers get that enough in their lives, those little thank you notes - at least ones from people that really mean it.

Thanks. I'm sure teachers don't get thanked enough. I mean while I was a student who actually took the time to do some of those notes, even I only did five of them, and one of them was for my high school guidance counselor. That's four teachers out of four years of high school classes. I didn't even get to see two of those teachers after I sent the notes so I have no idea how they felt getting those notes. I know of the two I saw one cried and hugged me, and the other dodged me like he was afraid he would cry in front of a student. The guidance counselor hugged me without crying. He was so full of warmth.

I always tell parents that everyone enjoys reading once they find their kind of book...

I've mentioned my parents were comfortable with my reading comic books. It wasn't just that. They let me try as many as it took to find what I liked best. There are two things I say about how I got into comics. 1) I progressed from Archie to DC to Marvel. 2) I was initially attracted to any cover that had a female character on it, especially if she had a sword and-or was doing magic. The Archie I read was Archie's Friends Betty and Veronica, which I forget originally had the "Archie's Friends" part because I just thought of it as "Betty and Veronica." The DC title I was doggedly faithful to, still buying it after I'd fully embraced Marvel and the X-Books, was Amethyst Princess of Gemworld which, as you might guess from the title, had female characters that used both swords and magic. At Marvel I picked the early books I read the same way. Doctor Strange had a cover with Clea on it. Thor had a cover with Sif or The Enchantress. Alpha Flight had a cover with Snowbird or Talisman. Magik is one of my favorite Marvel characters because she's a mutant with magic and a sword. My parents were so tolerant of my trying things I bought issues of Red Sonja She-Devil With a Sword at the age of eight. They weren't put off by "She-Devil" or the chain mail bikini.

...I cringe when adults want to force "classics" down their kids throats (or eyeballs I guess would be a more appropriate body part).

I understand. Even within genre fiction with my parents, my father was always disappointed that I've never loved The Lord of the Rings the way he did. Course talking about classics of "serious literature" I've always hated Romeo and Juliet, but loved Hamlet, and I've never cared as much for Jane Austen as I do for the Bronte sisters. Jane Eyre is one of my all time favorite books. You never know.

[orangerful]

Yeah, I am of the mindset that just let people read what they want. I think the reason I have such disdain for classics is that I was forced to read them in school when my maturity level was nowhere near what it would be to appreciate Bronte or Austen or Dickens. And now I just get angry when I see them because I think of high school LOL.

My parents never stopped me from reading anything I wanted. My Mom said she could tell if I was going to make it through a book on my own and didn't really worry about inappropriate material and so on.

Don't even get my STARTED on having teens READ Shakespeare, something that is meant to be seen and heard. :|

[beccadg]

I wanted to get back to this sooner, but with mom and my ongoing health issues...

I think the reason I have such disdain for classics is that I was forced to read them in school when my maturity level was nowhere near what it would be to appreciate Bronte or Austen or Dickens

Ah. I didn't read until I was 8, but by the time they put me through a battery of IQ tests to decide if I should be placed in the Gifted and Talented program at the Junior High I was off the top of their reading comprehension scale. They had to just call it "college." I loved reading Jane Eyre in High School. Course I was puzzled about why we had to read The Great Gatsby in High School. I didn't get that until I read it again in College.

Don't even get my STARTED on having teens READ Shakespeare, something that is meant to be seen and heard. :|

Well, in my high school we didn't do full stagings of every play, but we did always read the plays aloud? I remember how frustrated my High School Freshman English class was that I got out of the class in the middle of Romeo and Juliet when I'd been the one reading Juliet. I also remember having been amused Sophmore year of High School that, while I was usually out sick a lot, it was the kid who was supposed to be reading Mark Antony that was out sick a lot, so I got to read most of Mark Antony as well as Julius Caesar himself. Of course, as I've said, my reading comprehension was off the scale before High School.

Just, I was suicidal Freshman year of High School, and I'm positive Jane Eyre, Hamlet, and my dad getting me into a College Creative Writing course saved my life. Hell, my love of Hamlet is so deep that after I performed Hamlet's "To Be or Not To Be" soliloquy for my Junior year acting course in College, and the professor allowed students to comment, one of them declared, "I finally get Shakespeare!" One of my favorite moments from College. I got an A for that course.

[orangerful]

I keep meaning to go back to "Gatsby" because I remember liking it in high school but don't ask my anything about it now LOL. I guess the immaturity of a lot of people with too much time on their hands clicked with me more than some orphan kid running around Victorian London?

I love Shakespeare but I've always been a nerd who rented the DVD from the library to see the plays. I think when the kids read the plays now, they do read them out loud in school but I have seen a few teachers give them as summer assignment reads and that's usually when I roll my eyes.

[alificent]

...oh my god, I can't believe this a thing. I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS IS A THING. I mean I guess I understand sometimes parents being concerned, like... I absolutely should NOT have read The Skeleton Crew when I was in fourth grade... BUT THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH READING LEVEL IT HAD TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT I SWAM IN LAKES A LOT.

[orangerful]

Yeah, there are at least two companies out there (that publishers have to PAY to get their books ranked with) that have established these random "levels" for reading. I usually want to throw it in parent's faces that Diary of a Wimpy Kid is on the same Lexile Level as an adult James Patterson novel. It's some crazy words per page per kind of word blah blah. They recently said in an interview it was never meant to go beyond the reading teachers as a tool to help them work with students. But the teachers told the parents and now the parents get OBSESSED with levels.

Luckily, I love my job and take pride in it so I will just do what every good reading teacher/Librarian is supposed to do - I talk to the kid. I show them books, ask what they have read, talk about their interests and can usually get them excited about reading 2-3 different books that range from right on their comfort level to a step up.

I have noticed it has been a little less this year and usually it is either 2nd-3rd grader parents who want their kids to move on from the "easy" books or high school parents who want their kids reading "challenging" books...but then get upset when I start suggesting things because now they need to quiz me on content.