#superheroproblems

[orangerful]

Daredevil Season 2 / superhero issues thoughts (though this applies to Batman and others too). Just pondering the aftermath of "the good vigilante" vs the "bad vigilante"


So, I've watched the first 4 episodes of Season 2 of Daredevil, which is a good chunk of the Punisher arc.

Daredevil's big thing is that he doesn't kill anybody and he is mad that the Punisher is.

BUT if you watch how Daredevil fights, with all the blunt force trauma to the head/face/neck region, enough that he can knock bad guys unconscious, you have to wonder what kind of condition they are in.

Is Hell's Kitchen now overrun with crippled gangsters who can no longer walk or feed themselves or do anything else?

Reminds me of the part in Terminator 2 where John gets all upset that the Terminator keeps killing people (!!!) and says to not kill them so from then on the Terminator doesn't kill them...he just blows off their kneecaps with his shotgun.

I'm not saying they would rather be dead but...let's just think about all the issues this would bring up later. Punisher shot up a room of Irish mobsters and they are all dead, it's over. Daredevil beats up a biker gang and now all of those guys have to go to the hospital, get some kind of money to pay for their hospital bills (do biker gangs have good insurance?) and then figure out a way to make a living after they get through physical therapy.

Batman has similar issues too when you see him fighting people, not killing them, but wow the injuries. I mean, isn't is possible that beating someone in the face until they pass out could lead to some medical issues if not right away, then later on.

So we've got billions of dollars of the city destroyed by The Avengers fighting aliens and artificial intelligence gone wrong, and then we have vigilantes filling hospitals with thugs and mobsters who probably can't afford to pay for any of it.

I dunno, I feel like this is one of those superhero issues that we just ignore, thinking "Oh Batman is a good hero because he doesn't kill people" and then don't think about the aftermath.

These are probably far too deep/serious thoughts for a show about a guy who runs around dressed like a devil...

Comments

[spaciireth.livejournal.com]

This has occurred to me as well. I think we're supposed to just suspend disbelief and assume that when all those guys come to, they're totally fine, realistically it's unlikely (and I know some people would come back to that with "It's a superhero movie, it's not supposed to be realistic!" but there are certain parts of reality that should still be reflected).

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Well, the thing I like about Daredevil and, even more so, Jessica Jones, is that they address the kind of aftermath that The Avengers battle had on the normal people. The city is kind of pissed that so many people died while these battles went on and it is touched upon, trying to make it more real. I know they aren't going full-Nolan on us (thank goodness, I hate what Nolan did to the DC Universe movies, though it wasn't entirely his fault) but if Daredevil and Punisher are going to have these arguments, it feels like the damage Daredevil is doing might need to be examined at some point?

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

Yes they are - but that's why we're on Livejournal.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

LOL thank you:)

[night-owl-9.livejournal.com]

I dunno, I feel like this is one of those superhero issues that we just ignore, thinking "Oh Batman is a good hero because he doesn't kill people" and then don't think about the aftermath. - True. People mostly gloss over those issues. "It's just fiction, who cares?" Well, if something like this happened in real life, you'd probably care a hell of a lot.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Well, in Jessica Jones, they definitely touch upon how people are upset with the destruction caused to the city so I feel like if we're going to take that route, then the amount of damaged people showing up in the ER with skull fractures should also be a problem. Maybe they can have the Nurse Rosario Dawson (I know she has a name in the show but when I see her I'm just like <3Rosario Dawson<3 and forget it immediately) can mention it at some point, ask Matt to take it down a notch.

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

So we've got billions of dollars of the city destroyed by The Avengers fighting aliens and artificial intelligence gone wrong, and then we have vigilantes filling hospitals with thugs and mobsters who probably can't afford to pay for any of it.

Oh man that has definitely been on my mind at times X_X;

[qwentoozla]

I always just imagine that all superhero stories take place in a universe where everyone is much more resistant to blunt force trauma, and they all really are fine later. I mean, superpowers exist, might as well assume that everyone has this small superpower... it allows me to stop worrying about how little sense it would otherwise make, haha.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I think it only really bothered me because of the Punisher storyline and talking about killing them versus not killing them. I mean, I usually wince and cringe at these guys get hit, but for some reason, after he had that argument with Punisher, then beat the crap out of the biker gang in the hall, I wasn't convinced he *didn't* kill anyone. I mean, he just doesn't intentionally kill anyone but any of those punches to the face, backflip kicks, smash them into a wall head on etc. could kill someone.

[ellipsisms.livejournal.com]

I'm kind of basically on the side of the Punisher tbh. Because he has a point - he takes care of the problem once and for all. That is a much better solution than beating them up and letting them walk around. I'm all for an eye for an eye and all. Forgiveness isn't really my strong point unfortunately. So yeah, I feel like I see why Matt doesn't want to kill people cause then he becomes like ~one of them and it's not his place to judge and all that, but on the other hand, it's hell of a lot more effective! This is why I have so much issue with most superhero shows lol. No one is effective. :P

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

LOL that was going to be my next rambling post because, yeah, by the end of the episode arc, I was firmly on The Punishers side (especially after they threatened the dog...KILL ALL THE HUMANS THEY DON'T DESERVE TO LIVE!)

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

AMEN SISTER. AMEN.

(Only on ep 5 now, don't spoil me for anything that might come after).

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I only just wrapped up 4 myself so don't worry :)

[syderia]

I remember reading an article about TV shows (and IIRC this one was about procedurals) saying that the way TV treats getting knocked out is one of the most unrealistic thing they do. (Basically, if you get knocked out and lose consciousness, you at the very least have a concussion, and possibly brain damage and you're not going to get up right afterwards to go after the bad guys.)

[chelseagirl.livejournal.com]

I think we might be one episode ahead of you, and without getting more specific, they echo the same thing with Elektra. Which, considering Claire (the nurse) backed off from him last season because she saw his darkness, feels like back pedaling.

I watched Jessica Jones before I watched the first season of DD, so I got attached to Claire first -- I hope we get more of her, even if not as a love interest.

Also, for a ficathon last month, I wrote a Jessica/Claire femslash, and the main point of it was that Jessica, despite her alcoholism and general misanthropy was actually a *less* dark person than Matt, because her boundaries and her distaste for hurting people were much more defined.

[scripsi.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking of all those injuries too. I know next to nothing about the Marvel universe and have no idea if the Punisher is an antagonist or a potential ally, but he is certainly a mirror to Daredevil and I'm interested in seeing how it will behandled.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

Haven't seen yet, so -

*Drive-by squishes*

[jerusha]

I think people tend not to realize how much damage you can do with a punch or two. I remember being a little surprised when I was working at the county attorney's office when someone got into a bar fight and nearly killed someone with one punch.

[1-rhiannon-1.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you mentioned this!! That occurred to me too! I said as much to Raven after DD knocked some of the bikers down stairs and over railings and whatnot and I'm like "I'm pretty sure dude is dead or at least wishes he was now!"

You're not supposed to think about the collateral damage, but when Hulk goes ... well, Hulk in midtown NYC, there's a crapload of damage. Who pays to fix this? What about all those people that got hurt? When superheroes play in the sandbox, things get messed up. I appreciate those things being shown, to be honest. I didn't watch it but I think that was the issue a lot of people had with the last Superman flick, too much collageral damage.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I guess that is the crux of Civil War, that the government wants to hold superheroes responsible for all the damage they cause and how they circumvent the law. It's what made the comic book series so interesting (I only read a couple trades) but I'm worried it will be glossed over in the Cap vs Ironman movie because that makes for more big screen entertainment than the politics.

I heard that about the newest Superman (which I refuse to see because of other issues with it) and Superman is one that would never allow that kind of stuff to happen, he knows better.

[1-rhiannon-1.livejournal.com]

I just don't care much for Superman, and I really don't want to see Superman vs. Batman because I am not down with the Batfleck. Not one bit. I have deep reservations about the Suicide Squad too. Leto is killing me.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I have a soft spot for Superman and Robin Hood but both of the recent modern movies, with their dark takes and "more realistic" versions of the characters have been turn-offs for me. And ever since DC went Nolan and decided THEY MUST BE SRS ALL THE TIME I just don't want to see their movies. Suicide Squad is at least a little bit goofy but it still feels far too dark for my tastes. Every since Marvel showed us the joys of Superhero movies, I have no desire to go back to the Bat.

[1-rhiannon-1.livejournal.com]

Even Marvel might be getting pretty dark, with Civil War. I don't know - I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Assault on Arkham spoiled me on the Suicide Squad. I want Neal McDonough to voice Deadshot and their Harley and Joker were PERFECT. I've been ruined by an animated movie.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Civil War will be dark, but even in the trailers we can hear the snark and I'm sure there will be a few jokes mixed in, especially with the emphasis on the Cap and Bucky relationship...I hope? I dunno.

Some of the animated movies are AWESOME and for DC, they are MUCH better than the live action ones. I've watched a few on netflix and have been pleasantly surprised. I used to watch Batman: The Animated Series after school all the time!

[1-rhiannon-1.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's true. Tony Stark could actually change his name to Tony Snark and it would be so accurate!

I agree! I think the only DC movie I ever really cared a whole lot about was Watchmen and I don't even think it was ever technically a DC product. It might have been, IDK.

[dancingdragon3.livejournal.com]

I skimmed above because I haven't started season 2, yet, but I think DD encourages deep examination. Unless the quality has declined in the second season (which wouldn't be unheard of, lol). I thought season one was one of the most thinky and realistic shows I'd seen in a while. Especially with showing the collateral damage Matt causes. But then, Claire's gone now, which was where that all was being examined...

[kseenaa.livejournal.com]

I don't think many think about that. :-) I know I didn't until this post! VERY interesting! And I bet the creators didn't think that far either. ;-)