kylo ren thoughts

[orangerful]

I finally got to watch my blu-ray of Force Awakens yesterday YAY!!!!!!!!! The first of many many viewings, I am sure. I feel like this one will definitely be a good "background" movie for when I'm working on stuff. I've seen it 5 times now and I think most of it is committed to memory LOL.

Anyway, I had a thought last night while watching a certain scene:


So, after THE SCENE near the end, when Kylo Ren embraces the dark side (or at least tries to), Chewbacca blasts him from the balcony, hitting Ben/Ren right in the side.

For some reason, I was really watching Adam Driver's face at this moment, and the look he gives Chewie was one of shock and I am interpreting it two ways.

1. In that moment, he is Ben again, Chewbacca was his childhood friend, someone who probably spent a lot of time with while his parents argued or whatever. Chewie would never hurt Ben, he was probably his protector, if anything. So that moment, when Chewbacca purposely harms him, that moment jars him back into Ben, and he feels the pain of what he has done, and for a moment he hurts before slipping back into the comfort of the darkness.

2. In that same moment, I think Kylo Ren felt physical pain for the first time. Ben Solo was probably coddled, the child of two war heroes, the nephew of the last Jedi. He probably never felt suffering in his entire life. Since we get the impression that Leia and Han were probably absentee parents, he was probably given anything he wanted to make up for it all. If he ever felt physical pain, it was most likely at the Jedi training camp, as I could see Luke having them do physical labor or other activities, but never anything truly life threatening that would draw blood. So here, the leader of the Knights of Ren, who thinks he is so dark and evil, this is the first time he feels true physical pain, that he actually bleeds. He has talked a big game up until this point, he has caused pain and suffering, he has killed, but he has never felt what it was like to be cut open. And again, in that moment, he goes from Ren to Ben, the child, surprised at how much it hurts, he never knew it could hurt so much. And, again, he lets the dark side envelope him and uses that pain and anger to overcome and go after Finn and Rey (though not Chewbacca, he can't be angry at Chewie, his target is Finn, someone who betrayed Kylo Ren, even though Chewie is the one that really hurt him).



In short, ADAM DRIVER'S FAAAAAAAAAAAACE. LOL. He really is a good actor, I really have liked him in everything I have seen him in.

Comments

[jerusha]

Have you seen this?

And I think I missed the expression on Ren's face when he was shot. I'll have to look for that the next time I watch it. I am wildly curious as to Ben Solo's background. I think he probably was fairly spoiled, and his parents were probably busy, but I just have to wonder. He seems to me to be the embodiment of entitled male privilege, someone who pitches a fit when things don't quite go his way. I wonder if what set him off was someone being stronger in the Force than he was.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

OH MY GOD WHY WOULD YOU SHOW ME THAT!!!!!!!! **DIES**

Speaking of, this makes me cry/laugh at the same time. (http://moviepilot.com/posts/3795433)

And I totally agree, I think the writers were definitely going for that angle of the entitled male of privilege with Ren. I think that is part of the reason he only refers to Rey as "girl" and "scavenger" for the movie. It will be so satisfying when he has to refer to her as JEDI.

[kseenaa.livejournal.com]

My gawd, people! You're killing me with them comics! o.O

[angelamermaid.livejournal.com]

I was going to link to that comic! Heartbreaking.

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

Those interpretations sound pretty plausible to me, and I can definitely see booth of those, looking back on that scene.

[doomcookie99.livejournal.com]

Yay for Star Wars! I slept through the Empire Strikes Back bc I was just 6 years old. lol

[night-owl-9.livejournal.com]

Oh man, I can totally see that! Too cool.

[rhoda-rants.livejournal.com]

I am appreciating Adam Driver more and more. It didn't even occur to me that he knows Chewie, but OF COURSE he knows Chewie. He probably babysat for them a few times.

I get the impression Ren/Ben has experienced pain before, but never at the hands of someone he actually likes. I can see him being bullied a lot as a kid, one of those, "I was a misfit nerd, I'll make you all sorry!" even though he's totally spoiled. On the other hand, I can see him being spoiled and coddled like you said, just because of who his family is, and wanting to rebel by going Dark or something.

I dunno, either one's a possibility. I'm open to many possibilities where Ren/Ben's background is concerned.

Two things stick out to me on my rewatches and the reading of the tie-in material:

1) He apparently recognizes Rey, and her being involved in getting BB-8 to the Resistance means something to him. In that same vein, I very strongly believe he wants to turn her, rather than kill her. That's one reason I feel like it was possible for her to kick his ass at the end, as satisfying as that was--I have no doubt she's had training of some kind, but it's been a while, and she's been in more fights than he has at that point. Proper close-quarters ones, not surrounded by soldiers who are there to do your will.

2) . . . Crap, I forgot what 2 was. Uhhhh. I'll be back.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I think he wants to turn her too, because he isn't truly dark side, just like Anakin/Vader with Luke. He may tell himself he wants an apprentice but really he just can't bring himself to kill her, she really is still innocent at that point. He killed Han as part of his "training" and he wants to kill Finn because he is a "traitor" but he really has no reason to kill Rey, and that bit of light in him won't let him.

Or, like all true Sith, his only thoughts are of being the NUMBER ONE SITH and he wants an apprentice to overthrow Snoke.

(ugh, still hate that name...Snoke...)

**waits for 2**

[rhoda-rants.livejournal.com]

I feel like "Snoke" might be an acronym or something--no way that's his proper name. I wanna say it's Darth Plagueis, but that's almost too easy.

Oh, and I remember now!! The other weird thing about Kylo Ren is that no one, even in the First Order, seems to respect him. At all. Domnhall Gleeson is just shy of rolling his eyes every time they're in the room together, and when those two Stormtroopers roll up while he's throwing a fit, they just walk away. I guess he inspires fear on some level, because he's powerful, and can hurt people, but no one on that side wants to be Kylo Ren. Contrast to Darth Vader in the original trilogy, where everyone was terrified of him but was very careful and very respectful and obedient at all times. (With the possible exception of Tarkin, who is his own brand of Lawful Evil.)

Not sure where I'm going with that thought, but I do wonder what's in store for the First Order next, given that very obvious command chain rift.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

There was a great article I read back when TFA first came out, and the guy pointed out that Kylo Ren wants to be Darth Vader so bad, and he tries so hard, but really, he's just Anakin Skywalker. He's petulant and whiny and no one really respects him because they know he has these anger issues. And this actually connects back to my thoughts about REAL pain and suffering because Anakin doesn't become Darth Vader until he feels the pain of losing his mother, then the "betrayal" of the Jedi, and finally the death of Padme transforms him into a soulless and evil man/machine.

Kylo Ren has never had a loss this great. Killing his father is the closest thing, the final step (he thinks) to becoming Vader but I think he is still trapped as Anakin's grandson. His fight with Rey was like the fight with Obi-Wan, a hissy fit, thinking he is the best, only to be bested, and then breaking down completely.

[rhoda-rants.livejournal.com]

I just had a terrifying thought.

What if it IS Luke's fault that Kylo turned out the way he did? I mean, given what a big, powerful badass Darth Vader is just by reputation, I can see how an impressionable, insecure teenager would start to idolize him. Hell, half the Star Wars fans I know are much keener on the Dark Side than the Light, because they get cooler outfits. (Arguably.)

But here's the other thing: Kylo has an actual connection to Vader. I wonder when he worked that out? At what point was he told that Vader was actually Anakin Skywalker? Luke spent most of his life completely ignorant of that, as did Leia--and most of the rest of the universe as far as we know still hasn't made that connection yet. One of the weirder things about reading the novels post-Jedi is I keep forgetting what a small handful of people actually knows that Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker.

Given how emotionally vulnerable Luke gets throughout the original trilogy, and how alone he is in mourning for his father--Leia sympathizes, but she never felt bad about it, since she had a strong father and mother figure in her life before that--I wonder if he latched onto Ben/Ren and inadvertently pushed him toward that idolization. He couldn't have just said, "NO. Vader was terrible. He was powerful, but bad, very bad, you don't want to be that guy." Because Luke wouldn't feel that way about him. If anything, he might've gone the direction, "Well, he did some terrible things, this is true, but he was part of our family, and I cared about him very much, and I never meant him to die like that." Because, well, that's all true.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Well, obviously Ben's choices are his own, but Luke might blame himself. Perhaps Ben asked Luke about Anakin and what was supposed to be a lesson on redemption was taken as a lesson in how much power the Dark Side has (just like you said, quicker, easier, more marketable)

I wonder how many people in this galaxy know about the Vader/Skywalker connection...I doubt Luke wanted to really talk about it and Leia strikes me as a private person and a politician that knows better than to link herself to the Empire. So, as far as we know, only the immediate family would be aware of this.

But this would give Luke an excuse for hiding himself away if he really took it all to heart, that his teachings were tainted by his connection to Vader. Perhaps he thought finding the old Jedi temples would give him something else to pull from for his lessons.

And, honestly, Luke could have easily gone Dark Side, we saw that in 'Empire' and during the final battle of 'RotJ'. It only takes a moment to give in to the anger and let go.

But I'm not really convinced that Kylo Ren/Ben has truly given himself over to the Dark Side. He knows it is more than he can handle.

GAH I WANT EPISODE VIII NOW!!!!!!!

[seizetheday.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the original Star Wars movies since I was a kid but now I want to after having seen the most recent one in the theater. Sounds like youre a big fan!

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

Yep, born and bred Star Wars fan. I've watched them since before I can remember. It's so nice to have the magic back with TFA, I hope they can keep it up!

[snogged.livejournal.com]

That is an excellent interpretation.

I'm going to have to watch it again and really soak in Adam Driver's face.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I love watching people's faces closely during scenes, especially when the face is not the focus. I've seen the movie 5 times now so I can start looking around the screen more and listening more carefully (I finally heard Obi Wan (Ewan McGregor) say "Rey"!)

[skyling.livejournal.com]

I hadn't given thought to the physical pain aspect but you're totally right! My original impression was he was so shocked Chewie shot at him was well, because it's Chewie and I like to think that they had a really good relationship growing up and Chewie was this older brother type protector for him as well. And like Han maybe he was willing to give him another chance because he's been misled and power hungry and immature but this just totally sealed the deal and made him full on hate Kylo. And I don't blame him I'm still pretty damn pissed about it and see very little redemption for the guy. But aye Adam was really great that scene and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next. I have absolutely no idea and it's so exciting!!!

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

YES! I have no idea where it will all go, and that is really what I like about it. With the prequels, we sorta knew how it all would end (in a way) but this is just open and it's so nice to be OPEN.

[jediknightmuse.livejournal.com]

I actually really like this interpretation.

And I don't know what it is, but I just CANNOT get behind Adam Driver as a Solo kid. :| Is that terrible? It's not even just his physical features that don't let me see him as a Solo, it's...

...Kylo is kind of a pathetic wannabe villain right now, honestly. There's nothing terrifying about him. There's nothing that makes me nervous and go "oh shit, this is not going to be good" right now. Vader was an impressive bad ass in a scary uniform and mask. Palpatine was a bad ass and was the type to make me go "oh shit, this is not going to be good. Kylo? Not so much. I think part of it might actually be the fact that he takes his helmet off...I mean, we don't even ever see Vader's face until he's dying, and at that point he's been redeemed. You only catch a glimpse of the back of his head before that.

Hopefully all that will change with the next movie, and Kylo's villain status will have been bumped up quite a bit. There's not much than can be done about the physical aspect, because I honestly...don't...think Adam is that good looking (-runs away from any tomatoes being thrown- :P) and that he doesn't look like he could be a Solo kid. -Maybe- if the use of the dark side had tainted Kylo's appearance, but I don't think he's really been using it long enough for that to happen.

Basically, I just need Kylo to prove that he's a bad ass villain (and not even necessarily -bad ass-) and really CAN follow in his grandfather's footsteps, and be a villain that you KNOW you don't want to mess with. I mean, there's that scene when after Rey escapes, the storm troopers are walking down the hallway and then they hear Kylo having a massive fit because Rey escaped and they immediately turn back around. That DOES strike -some- fear, but just a tiny bit, and really...it's 'cause he's throwing a tantrum, it's not because he's actually that scary.

...I didn't realize I felt all this about Kylo, lol. Sorry. XD

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

HAHA! All valid points!

I find Adam Driver's face *interesting* though I don't know if I would categorize him as a hottie. I think he has moments of being handsome. But I like that he doesn't look like a cookie cutter "attractive male actor".

ANYWAY, not sure if you saw my other comments, but I read an article about TFA at one point and it really hit the nail on the head for me - while Kylo Ren tries SO VERY HARD to be Darth Vader, he really is just Anakin Skywalker (circa AotC, not quite RotS). He is whiny, kind of a brat, feels entitled, and has never really felt true pain or betrayal until TFA. So he's not very scary, no one really respects him, but he feels he should be respected for something he didn't earn (Anakin believes he is the chosen one and therefore entitled to respect, Ben is the child of war heroes and nephew to a Jedi so should be respected).

I don't know if he will ever be a badass. Can he be? Snoke wants to "complete his training", so what will that entail? He has now murdered his father and has a scar on his face, is that all it takes to be a Sith? Or was Han right, Snoke is just using him for his power and he plans on discarding him as soon as he can (Hux would probably help push him out an airlock).

[1-rhiannon-1.livejournal.com]

Drake and I talked about that when we watched it, and about the fact that we feel like Chewie pulled his punch, so to speak, and shot him in the side instead of in the head. Let's be real, though, the troopers that Chewie shot with that thing, even in the middle, were blasted about 10-20 feet away. So that kinda speaks to Kylo Ren's strength as well. I hate Kylo Ren, but the character is fascinating. He comes off as a whiny little twat with a real bad attitude, but there is a major core of strength there that's really impressive. He stayed standing. The little fucker.

Someone, probably my brother, told me that Chewie was supposed to be the one that was killed, but the studio said no. I can't handle losing Chewie. I can handle losing anyone but Chewie. Or BB-8.

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

OH good point! Kylo should have fallen but he didn't (maybe it was those lifts in his shoes weighing him down LOL, did you notice how he clomps around like a kid?)

I had not heard that about Chewie. They had already bumped him off in the books, which I think is part of the reason Disney was like "yeah, we are ignoring the Expanded Universe". I doubt that only because I know Ford only came back so he could die. He's been wanting to die since RotJ LOL.

[1-rhiannon-1.livejournal.com]

I thought his stomping around was just a tantrum thing XD

Honestly, Harrison could've freaking warned us! I've been half in love with Han Solo since I was a kid. Not hardcore in love, but that appreciative love thing. I wasn't prepared!

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I had read about Ford and Lucas clashing over the end of RotJ, that Harrison wanted a much darker ending, with Han sacrificing himself, but Lucas didn't want to go that way (thank goodness) so I think he has been holding a grudge against the franchise ever since. When I heard he had agreed to do the new movie, I, as they say, had a bad feeling about this. I was still surprised when it happened.